                       Final Minutes for Feb 1-5 1999

                Meeting of ISO/JTC1/SC22/WG14 and NCITS/J11

                        WG14/N882 J11/99-017


01 Feb 98  09:00-12:00 13:30-17:00
02 Feb 98  08:30-12:00 13:30-17:00
03 Feb 98  08:30-12:00 13:30-17:00
04 Feb 98  08:30-12:00 13:30-17:00
05 Feb 98  08:30-12:00

Intel Corp.
Cornell Oaks Corporate Center -- Building C01
15201 N.W. Greenbrier Parkway
Beaverton, Oregon 97006, USA


Roger Golliver
roger.a.golliver@intel.com
Voice:  +1 503 264-9652
Fax:    +1 503 264-4515

------------------------------------------------------------
Monday Feb 1st

 8:30 --  9:00  --- Coffee ---
 9:00 -- 10:15  1. Opening activities
        1.1  Opening Comments
        1.2  Introduction of Participants
          Benito, John         Perennial           WG14, Convener
          Golliver, Roger      Intel, alternate    J11
          Gwyn, Douglas        US Army             J11
          Harris, Erin         IBM                 J11, WG14, Canada
          Jaeschke, Rex        Self                J11, Chair
          Jones, Larry         SDRC                J11, Project Editor
          MacDonald, Tom       SGI                 J11
          Meyers, Randy        Silverhills Systems J11
          Nelson, Clark        Intel               J11
          Peterson, Rich       Compaq/Digital      J11
          Plum, Tom            Plum Hall           J11
          Seebach, Peter       Self                J11
          Seymour, Bill        Self                J11, Rationale Editor
          Simonsen, Keld       Danish Standards    WG14, Denmark HOD
          Thomas, Jim          HP                  J11, alternate
          Tydeman, Fred        Tydeman Consulting  J11,
          Walls, Douglas       Sun                 J11, USA HOD, and
                                                   Meeting secretary
          Feather, Clive       BSI                 WG14, UK HOD
          Tanaka, Keishiro     Fujitsu             WG14, Japan HOD


        1.3  Host Facilities/local information

        1.4  Procedures for this Meeting

        1.5  Approval of Previous Minutes [N859]

      N872 - Final Minutes Santa Cruz (Walls)
      Approved No changes.

        1.6  Review of Action Items and Resolutions

     (Done) Rex Jaeschke: procedures for update of minutes (final
      minutes) to be made official.
        Provide revision and John Benito

     (Open) Randy Meyers: will update previous minutes for those
      that he took.

     (Done) Benito: Send Rationale to Keld for ftp site

     (Done) Jan Kristoffersen+Randy Meyers words why no I/O
      hardware in C9X (pro and con sides).  Post to reflector
      before include into rationale.

     (Done) Clive Feather - rationale for sequence points. [No
      longer needed].

     (Done) Keld - look into putting C++ on C private ftp site for
      members use.  Still maintain email cross posting between C
      and C++.

     (Done) We need to draft letter to request POSIX NOT include
      it.  Done: Is part of WG14 N860.

     (Done) Tydeman - post where to get LIA-2.

     (Open) Meyers: Write rationale on 64-bit with ideas on how to
      reduce code size if not used.

     (Open) Keld Simonsen will coordinate with POSIX, WG20, Single
      Unix on localeconv.

     (Done) UK (Jones) will work on getting words along with SGI
      (MacDonald+Homer).

     (Open) Tom MacDonald: Rationale for this change to FOR (and
      related).

     (Open) Seebach craft words for rationale why we did not adopt
     conformance requirements in to C9X.

     (Open) Keld will host email-list about conformance to start with
      C, C++, Java.

     (Open) Keaton+Larry to come up with words for why
      Number of arguments no change needed.

     (Done) Tom MacDonald: add this to rationale, VLA side effects
     rationale as to why they are not allowed

     (Done) Rex Jaeschke will work on issues raised by C committee
      on I18N API.

     (Closed) Everyone: See what your implementations do for this code.
      Matters more to C++ (due to destructors and static data).

     (Done) Rex J. provide email address of NCITS Liaison (Tom Frost)
      to J11.  tfrost@att.com


     (Done) Rex Jaeschke talk to Tom Frost about ballot choices.
      J11 members must also use official channels (Deborah Donovan,
      202-626-5746, ddonovan@itic.nw.dc.us or ddonovan@itic.org).

     (Done) Perennial+Keaton: Provide words to Clive on Annex D
      removal.

     (Done) MacDonald: Feather #23 response. Part of restrict.  (Done)

     (Done) Plum to coordinate with C++.
      Backup might be St. Louis, Missouri hosted by Seymour.

     (Done) Meyers: I/O Hardware words for rationale

     (Done) Gwyn/Benito: To notify WG15 about changes to assert.

     (Closed) Harris: __func rationale from Mooney.

     (Open) Meyers: Produce rationale for macro replacement

     (Open) Seebach: Provide strsep() rationale.

     (Closed) Feather - Rationale for struct tmx. [No longer needed].

     (Open) Jones - Provide strftime() rationale.

     (Open) Meyers - %m rationale.


        1.7  Approval of Agenda [N864]

        1.8  Distribution of New Documents

        1.9  Information on Next Meeting

        1.10 Identification of National Bodies/J11

             voting members


  WG14 National Bodies: Canada, U.K., U.S., Japan, Denmark

     J11 members who have not paid this years dues, due by 2/22/99 to
     avoid losing membership:
        Compaq, HP, Farance, Intel, Keaton, Seymour, Plum Hall, Unisys

     J11 voting members 15 out of 17


10:15 -- 10:30  2. Project Editor's Report [N870] (Jones)



10:30 -- 10:45   --- Morning break ---



10:45 -- 11:00  3. Rational Editor's Report (Seymour)



11:00 -- 11:15  4. Liaison Activities

                4.1 J11 + ANSI (C)

                4.2 WG14 + ISO/SC22 (C)

                4.3 J16/WG21 (C++)

                4.4 WG15 (Posix)

                4.5 WG20 (I18N)

                4.6 Other Liaison Activities



11:15 -- 11:30  5a. FCD Status Report (Benito)


    Voting results
                13 - Yes
                 3 - No (Denmark, Japan, U.K.)
                 2 - Abstain
                 4 - Not voting
                 1 - O member voting

    We will resolve the comments here.  If not done at this meeting
    there will be a follow-up WG14 meeting resolve any remaining comments.


11:30 -- 12:00  5b. Restrict [N866, N867] (MacDonald)



12:00 -- 13:30   --- LUNCH ---



13:30 -- 14:00  6. Identify work items for this meeting

                (Jaeschke/Benito)



14:00 -- 15:00  7. Subgroup deliberations and presentations



15:00 -- 15:15   --- Afternoon break ---



15:15 -- 17:00  8. Subgroup deliberations and presentations





Tuesday Feb 2nd



 8:00 --  8:30   --- Coffee ---



 8:30 -- 10:30  9. Subgroup deliberations and presentations



10:30 -- 10:45   --- Morning break ---



10:45 -- 12:00  10. Subgroup deliberations and presentations



12:00 -- 13:00   --- LUNCH ---



13:00 -- 15:00  11. Subgroup deliberations and presentations



15:00 -- 15:15   --- Afternoon break ---



15:15 -- 17:00  12. Subgroup deliberations and presentations



19:00 --        Reception hosted by Intel





Wednesday Feb 3rd



 8:00 --  8:30   --- Coffee ---



 8:30 -- 10:30  13. Subgroup deliberations and presentations



10:30 -- 10:45   --- Morning break ---



10:45 -- 12:00  14. Subgroup deliberations and presentations



12:00 -- 13:30   --- LUNCH ---



13:30 -- 15:00  15. Subgroup deliberations and presentations



15:00 -- 15:15   --- Afternoon break ---



15:15 -- 15:45  16a. Side effects in VLAs (MacDonald)

15:45 -- 16:00  16b. WG20 liason issues (Simonsen)

10 - Keld reporting on Standard on cultural conventions ISO/14652

    Keld as liason is seeking support from WG14 on this work.  WG14 has
    previously expressed such support.  The US at SC22 expresses opposition
    to this work.

    Request J11 IR (Walls) to investigate how the U.S. position in
    the SC22 tag is being formed.  And communicate the
    J11 expression of support of the work in WG20 as
    WG14 makes use this (WG20) work.


16:00 -- 18:00  16c. Subgroup deliberations and presentations





Thursday Feb 4th



 8:00 --  8:30   --- Coffee ---



 8:30 --  9:00  17a. restrict [N867] (MacDonald)

    SV. What should we do?
        Do nothing - 5
        Accept as proposed - 2
        Sub group to look at if we can add via different syntax - 6


 9:00 --  9:30  17b. Side effects in VLAs (MacDonald)

 9:30 -- 10:30  17c. Subgroup deliberations and presentations


10:30 -- 10:45   --- Morning break ---



10:45 -- 12:00  18. Subgroup deliberations and presentations



12:00 -- 13:00   --- LUNCH ---



13:00 -- 15:00  19. Subgroup deliberations and presentations



15:00 -- 15:15   --- Afternoon break ---



15:15 -- 17:00  20. Subgroup deliberations and presentations


    US. Comment #1 Walls
        atexit call after exit should be undefined
    SV. Should we adopt a stack model
           ALL in room 10-1
           WG14 2-0-3



Friday Feb 5th



 8:00 --  8:30   --- Coffee ---



 8:30 -- 10:15  21. Subgroup deliberations and presentations


  UK. General comment #1 (line 2253 of N2872)

    SV - In favor of the intent as proposed here
       J11 8/2
      WG14 4/0/1

  Restrict [N867] (MacDonald)
    Modified in subcommittee and on the floor to use the keyword "static"

    SV - N867 as modified issue #2 do we want "static" used in
         int a [static 10] means exactly 10 elements being passed
    J11 - 7/1
    WG14 - 3/0/2  (U.K., Denmark, U.S. - For)  (Canada, Japan - Abstain)
         Canada comment of concern this could change Canada position
         don't know.

    SV - Do you want issue #1 allowing qualifiers in parameter
         array declarations, i.e. int a [restrict 10]
    J11 - 7/2
    WG14 - 3/1/1

    SV - Do you want both issue #1 and #2 together
    J11 - 7/1
    WG14 - 3/1/1

    Consensus reached on this issue.

  Denmark comment #1 (line 429 of N2872)
    SV - Adopt isblank() & iswblank() as specified in CD 9899 with
         the following modifications to the descriptions:
       Add: "The general use is for detecting word boundaries within a line."
       Change: "for which isalnum is false"
           To: "for which isspace is true"
    J11 - 3/0
    WG14 - 3/0/2

    Consensus reached on this issue.


10:15 -- 10:30   --- Morning break ---

10:15 -- 10:30  22. Separate WG14 admin and J11/U.S. TAG meetings



10:30 -- 11:30  23. Subgroup deliberations and presentations

                23.1 Disposition of comments [N873]

    The disposition (resolution) of all comments on FCD 9899 recording the
    changes to be applied to C9X to produce the FDIS from the FCD
    are recorded in N873.



11:30 -- 12:00  24. Administration



                24.1 Future Meetings



                24.1.1 Future Meeting Schedule


    Jun 21-25, 1999  London     BSI
    Oct 18-22, 1999  Hawaii     Plum Hall


                24.1.2 Future Agenda Items

                24.1.3 Future Mailings (sponsor for WG14 mailings)

        post-Portland deadline  March 5, 1999
        pre-London deadline             May 28, 1999

        Submit input for rationale revision by April 1, 1999


                24.2 Resolutions

                24.2.1 Review of Decisions Reached

                24.2.2 Formal Vote on Resolutions

                24.2.3 Review of Action Items

Prior meetings:

*AI: (Done) Rex Jaeschke: procedures for update of minutes (final
      minutes) to be made official.
        Provide revision and John Benito

*AI: (Open) Randy Meyers: will update previous minutes for those
      that he took.

*AI: (Done) Benito: Send Rationale to Keld for ftp site

*AI: (Done) Jan Kristoffersen+Randy Meyers words why no I/O
      hardware in C9X (pro and con sides).  Post to reflector
      before include into rationale.

*AI: (Done) Clive Feather - rationale for sequence points. [No
      longer needed].

*AI: (Done) Keld - look into putting C++ on C private ftp site for
      members use.  Still maintain email cross posting between C
      and C++.

*AI: (Done) We need to draft letter to request POSIX NOT include
      it.  Done: Is part of WG14 N860.

*AI: (Done) Tydeman - post where to get LIA-2.

*AI: (Open) Meyers: Write rationale on 64-bit with ideas on how to
      reduce code size if not used.

*AI: (Open) Keld Simonsen will coordinate with POSIX, WG20, Single
      Unix on localeconv.

*AI: (Done) UK (Jones) will work on getting words along with SGI
      (MacDonald+Homer).

*AI: (Open) Tom MacDonald: Rationale for this change to FOR (and
      related).

*AI: (Open) Seebach craft words for rationale why we did not adopt
     conformance requirements in to C9X.

*AI: (Done) Keld will host email-list about conformance to start with
      C, C++, Java.

*AI: (Open) Keaton+Larry to come up with words for why
      Number of arguments no change needed.

*AI: (Done) Tom MacDonald: add this to rationale, VLA side effects
     rationale as to why they are not allowed

*AI: (Done) Rex Jaeschke will work on issues raised by C committee
      on I18N API.

*AI: (Closed) Everyone: See what your implementations do for this code.
      Matters more to C++ (due to destructors and static data).

*AI: (Done) Rex J. provide email address of NCITS Liaison (Tom Frost)
      to J11.  tfrost@att.com

*AI: (Done) Rex Jaeschke talk to Tom Frost about ballot choices.
      J11 members must also use official channels (Deborah Donovan,
      202-626-5746, ddonovan@itic.nw.dc.us or ddonovan@itic.org).

*AI: (Done) Perennial+Keaton: Provide words to Clive on Annex D
      removal.

*AI: (Done) MacDonald: Feather #23 response. Part of restrict.  (Done)

*AI: (Done) Plum to coordinate with C++.
      Backup might be St. Louis, Missouri hosted by Seymour.

*AI: (Done) Meyers: I/O Hardware words for rationale

*AI: (Done) Gwyn/Benito: To notify WG15 about changes to assert.

*AI: (Closed) Harris: __func rationale from Mooney.

*AI: (Open) Meyers: Produce rationale for macro replacement

*AI: (Open) Seebach: Provide strsep() rationale.

*AI: (Closed) Feather - Rationale for struct tmx. [No longer needed].

*AI: (Open) Jones - Provide strftime() rationale.

*AI: (Open) Meyers - %m rationale.

New action item:

*AI (Open) Clive, Provide London (6/99) meeting info.

*AI (Open) Rex, Needs to provide responses to individuals
      submitting U.S. comments on the FCD

*AI (Open) All, Resolutions of all comments needed by end
      this meeting in electronic form.

*AI (Open) Walls, Request of the SC22 tag how the US position
    on ISO/14652, the Standard on cultural conventions is being formed.
    J11 would like to express an opinion.  WG14 has expressed to SC22
    they use this work.

*AI (Done) Keld, to send Walls previous US position on ISO/14652

*AI (Open) MacDonald rationale side-effects in VLA

*AI (Open) MacDonald rationale for static added to array parameter syntax


                24.2.4 Thanks to Host



                24.3 Other Business



12:00           25. Adjournment





------------------------------------------------------------



Minutes for the J11/U.S. TAG Meeting, Friday Feb 5th at 10:15

   Walls reported on the results of the FCD 9899 ballot
    Question: I support the approval of FCD 9899: Information technology -
         Programming languages - Programming Language C (Revision of
         ISO/IEC 9899:1990)

         4 - Yes
        12 - Yes, with comment  (All comments were the same *)
         0 - No
         1 - Not voting, letter ballot not returned

    *   All U.S. public comments should be forwarded as a part of the
        U.S. position on FCD 9899: Information technology -
        Programming languages - Programming Language C (Revision of
        ISO/IEC 9899:1990).



  The vote we cast on the FCD is the same vote used on the FDIS by
   default, unless we notify Debbie otherwise.  Saves us from having to do
   a letter ballot on the FDIS.

   FM (Gwyn/Benito) - J11 recommends a yes vote on FDIS
        14/0/0/1/15

   Walls reported yes vote on ISO/IEC DIS 16509 forward to SC22 tag.

 Appoint delegation and HOD for future WG14 meetings.


  U.S. Delegations for Jun 1999 Meeting as decided at October 1998
  TAG meeting in Santa Cruz

    Douglas Walls (HOD)
    Larry Jones
    Bill Seymour
    Tom MacDonald

  Chair ask is we shall adopt the same group for October 1999, no objections.

