From owner-sc35wg4+sc35wg4-domo=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Sun Oct 7 19:54:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc35wg4-domo Delivered-To: sc35wg4-domo@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 4466F358A94; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 19:54:35 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc35wg4@open-std.org Received: from mail-qt1-f169.google.com (mail-qt1-f169.google.com [209.85.160.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB61358A33; Sun, 7 Oct 2018 19:54:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f169.google.com with SMTP id o17-v6so2893473qtr.1; Sun, 07 Oct 2018 10:54:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:references:from:to:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=ADVtwK0bH6BdJYe6tfx2N41AzYhB17UacXUvxpkOCOI=; b=Qr0yKcVG4mZd6a44noSNXvVGY+acyH9GAw5j3cZR5ENway+Jf08WRWszV+72tzvnek Gxg5ScUrbVq3J4pnQXO/h+4TRaGXus7osZm7GRnR48cQnX/r/bSaEY66Dy0NSm8OQrlb driTI+oTzDQ+JOnbAo8Yb1gQk1VSiUq/ZQjqC6fh7lkqzR84WvNMxC/71WmsJs9wu/3Q /7ubOnMBQ98iEgkBRsrGtADNemXswgk7YNbnKXLfGWvhVMacLqGbIlVwuVoRY6gO8v2x aqdPBtVCQvOQPaUmFo/I2fk/CTZUHw+lPznJooMGwgNwf1uVS8YDelaakY0R108jfg0F wrcA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:from:to:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=ADVtwK0bH6BdJYe6tfx2N41AzYhB17UacXUvxpkOCOI=; b=DDipWbNtW7AoKPzCoKORhWMnr2EHO3gYhu6g2JWdstZsXkv8LKgAyKdR/hd+4uMiPz uObCwgnDAnsBonWHVC/DuChv+nm83Q3oEFAFV8aVRtJC16BbXMkq/ooZcSca1hKicsHH ECOoKV8RCROoZt1n8s5jnM3KXjOUWhcRXOGcNDKMoZx3LLBicapsaqmyqkTOIJbcLw48 2rt5w1CHpjPO2WzHXO1SkXR3J/ffoQsZaPsGThpUN4r/nHIh0nh0p0kKQJ1mD9eqHZ/U FAmjFNQkwODicvPcOXBlkvn0mx6UAX8ZTsl8KU1pkGBBM/hgHHa0bYAGGGpQrX4dGXHd lySg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoh8hScHtMPJNYXkQfWVsvc2I1f6zJ+8o4HkhEdY+QdrVprWY3Us uG0FRQNJHYPtZgGau+myDq0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV633f0Utm7y49qhMtlpsDNl28CyI+imXUq7xigVsHvPzgO1+AYJE1+ctV1h4c1YNJNOTM0gw9Q== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:1a95:: with SMTP id x21-v6mr16551359qtj.44.1538934872577; Sun, 07 Oct 2018 10:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (modemcable146.102-19-135.mc.videotron.ca. [135.19.102.146]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d193-v6sm7161635qka.78.2018.10.07.10.54.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 07 Oct 2018 10:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fwd: wg1 minutes References: <20181007164118.GA27845@rap.rap.dk> From: =?UTF-8?B?QWxhaW4gTGFCb250w6kgW+KpgOKpkeKrll0=?= To: "sc35wg1@open-std.org" , sc35wg2@open-std.org, "sc35wg4@open-std.org" , "SC35WG6@open-std.org" , jean melissa X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20181007164118.GA27845@rap.rap.dk> Message-ID: <9db22262-c3c4-c03d-ff40-82ae60698efc@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2018 13:54:27 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20181007164118.GA27845@rap.rap.dk> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------AEBF70B27708C663E058946D" Content-Language: fr X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181007-2, 2018-10-07), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-sc35wg4@open-std.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AEBF70B27708C663E058946D Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Keld,

thanks vey much. I much prefer that presentation than trying to struggle with a document that went back and forth between MS Word and LibreOffice (it was painful before). [I opened it with MS Word to read it though, just to see lines that automatically fit my screen, but I left it in TXT mode].

I have nothing to say about the content, which imho reflects what was said quite faithfully. If othershave remarks, I assume they will say so asap.

I'm sending it to the SC35 WGs (officious email lists) involved for comments and if I receive no remark, I will post it on the ISO site in the middle of the coming week.

I'm also sending a copy to Mélissa.

Regards,

Alain

-------- Message transféré --------
Sujet : wg1 minutes
Date : Sun, 7 Oct 2018 18:41:18 +0200
De : Keld Simonsen <keld@keldix.com>
Pour : Alain LaBonté <alabon@gmail.com>


Hi Alain

here is my draft WG1 minutes in text form.

best regards
keld


Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com
--------------AEBF70B27708C663E058946D Content-Type: text/plain; name="Minutes_JTC1-SC35-WG1-201800912.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Minutes_JTC1-SC35-WG1-201800912.txt" ISO/IEC JTC1/SC35 / WG1 DATE: 2018-09-12 ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 User Interfaces Secretariat: AFNOR DOC TYPE: Meeting minutes TITLE: Meeting minutes for the ISO/IEC/JTC 1/SC 35 WG 1 meeting, 2018-08 SOURCE: Keld Simonsen STATUS: Meeting held from Monday 2018-08-27 at 14:00 to Thursday 2018-08-30 at 18:00, in Okayama, Japan. ACTION ID: FYI DUE DATE: 2018-09-16 DISTRIBUTION: P, Def MEDIUM: E NO. OF PAGES: 3 (including this one) Secretariat of ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 AFNOR - Philippe Magnabosco 11 rue Francis de Pressensé 93571 - La Plaine Cedex Saint-Denis - France Telephone: +33 1 41 62 85 02; Facsimile: 33 1 49 17 90 00; e-mail: philippe.magnabosco@afnor.org Minutes WG 1 MEETING KEYBOARDS AND INPUT INTERFACES 2018-08-27/2018-08-30 1. Opening of the meeting at 14:00, Monday, after the first session of the Plenary meeting The convenor, Alain LaBonté opened the meeting, and welcomed participants [2-3 [To be jointly scheduled with WG4, WG5 and WG6] 2. Follow-up of action item 2018.01 [Thibault Grouas] Discussion on WD of "Information technology - Virtual keyboards user interfaces - Part 1: Generic interface" - Planning CD ballot Mr Grouas presented the latest working draft on project 22121-1, which includes the comments made during last meeting and other additional comments. It was followed by a discussion on Pr. Yohikazu Yamamoto's comments on the document which were received too late to be taken into account by the editor. There was a discussion on the scope of the document, and it was decided during the meeting that the document should only cover on-screen virtual keyboards with direct touch interfaces, in order to make things easier for the reader of the standard. The document was amended during the meeting and the scope was changed to reflect this change. It was also decided to retitle the document to match the new scope as discussed with experts, and then proceed with a CD vote when the draft is sorted out with this new scope in mind. Generic interface recommendations and guidance removed from this document should be kept in a file for later use in the part of the series that will cover the general interface and framework of virtual keyboards. 3. Follow-up of action item, 2018.02 [Denis Chêne] The WGs noted with regret that Dr. Denis Chêne was not able to work for SC 35 for the past few months and had announced that he would not be available in the coming 6 months, making it impossible to reach the DIS stage before February 2019 as initially planned. The WGs agreed to the following: Recommendation 1: Progress of project ISO/IEC 22121-2: "Information technology -- Virtual keyboards user interfaces -- Part 2: Virtual keyboards interactions" ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 - acknowledges the fact that the editor, Dr. Denis Chêne, will be unavailable to do work on this project for at least 6 months due to professional constraints; - is aware that without due action, because of what preceeds, this project will be definitely canceled by ISO due to current directives; - and in consequence requests ISO to renumber it to ISO/IEC 22121-3 (to avoid potential Recommendation 2: Renaming project ISO/IEC 22121-1 "Information technology -- Virtual keyboards user interfaces -- Part 1: Generic interface" ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 acknowledges that the generic framework for this whole series of standards will have to be developed after its main parts, given that current part 1 focuses on the most used instance of virtual keyboards and not on the more general case ; renames this project ISO/IEC 22121-2 "Information technology - Virtual keyboard user interfaces -- Part 2 : On-screen keyboards with direct touch interface" ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 will produce a part 1 later on to introduce other parts, after development of several other less generic parts, like this one. Recommendation 3: CD ballot on "Information technology - Virtual keyboard user interfaces -- Part 2 : On-screen keyboards with direct touch interface" ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 requests the editor, Mr. Thibault Grouas, to provide a new text to the SC35 Secretariat no later than October 1 taking into account changes made in Okayama; requests the SC35 secretariat to launch a 12-week CD ballot with this text so that ballot results be ready before the next SC35 meeting. ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 will in the near future present this project again as a PWI to be sure that sufficient time is granted for proper development. Recommendation 1 resulted in the following SC 35 resolution: Resolution 2018-09: Progress of ISO/IEC 22121-2: "Information technology -- Virtual keyboards user interfaces -- Part 2: Virtual keyboards interactions" ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 requests ISO/CS to renumber it to ISO/IEC 22121-3 (to avoid potential confusion - see resolution 2018-10). requests the ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 Secretary to take necessary actions to reset the project as a PWI no later than 2018-09-30. [4] [To be jointly scheduled with WG2 and WG5] 4. Follow-up of action item 2018.07 [Dr. Yoshikazu Yamamoto and Keld Simonsen] [Future keyboards TR outcome] Discussion about "Information technology - Universal interface for choosing a natural language" Planning NP ballot The WGs agreed to the following: Recommendation 10: Progressing project on "Interface for universal human language selection interface" As a follow-up of resolution 2018.07, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 - thanks WG2 and in particular Pr. Ikeda for having presented the requested report recommending a choice of symbols and icons for language selection - requests the editor, Mr. Keld Simonsen, to send SC35 secretary no later than 2018-10-01 a new NP text and a new WD incorporating changes made during the meeting, in particular the new symbols and icons proposed by WG2 - requests the SC35 Secretary to launch an NP ballot accompanied with the WD no later than 2018-10-15. [5-7 WG1-only] 5. Follow-up of action item 2018.06 [Keld Simonsen] [Future keyboards TR outcome] Discussion about "Information technology - Standardized Group Selection" Processing CD ballot comments Planning potential DIS ballot The WG discussed the outcome of the CD ballot and made a Disposition of Comments document. In the discussions it was clarified that the group term related to the term "keyboard group" of the 9995 series, and not to a not so well defined term of "keyboard layout". This caused some discussions, as some experts wanted to be able to toggle more than one group at a time, and also toggle an associated input method. It was not clear how to solve this during the meeting, and thus it was decided to go to a second CD ballot, even if the ballot result allowed the project to proceed to DIS ballot. The WG agreed to the following: Recommendation 5 : Progress of project ISO/IEC 9995-12 "Information technology - Keyboard layouts for text and office systems - Part 12: Keyboard group selection" ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 acknowledges the positive results of 1st CD ballot that nevertheless came back with comments from KR and FR national bodies that were accommodated during the Okayama meeting; requests the editor, Mr. Keld Simonsen, to send SC35 secretary a new text incorporating changes made during the meeting, alongside the disposition of comments, no later than 2018-09-15 for initiating a second CD ballot so that results be received before the next meeting requests the SC35 Secretary to launch the second CD ballot no later than 2018-10-01. 6. Follow-up of action item 2018.08 [Keld Simonsen] [Future keyboards TR outcome] Planning future steps The WG agreed to the following: Recommendation 6: Expected Follow-up on input methods ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 accepts the recommendation of Mr. Keld Simonsen to put this potential project on hold, so that it can be rethought, requests Mr Keld Simonsen to investigate (for example in the Linux world) on how to achieve this standard and report at the next meeting the results of this investigation with a recommendation as to how it can be furthered on or not at this point. requests Mr. Keld Simonsen to send a working draft to WG1 Convenor no later than 2018-12-31 request the convenor, M. Alain LaBonté, to circulate this text at the latest one month before the next meeting if the investigation is successful. 7. Follow-up of action item 2018.09 - Amendment 1 of ISO/IEC 9995-9 [Karl Pentzlin] Discussion on "Information technology - Keyboard layouts for text and office systems - Part 9: Multi-lingual, multi-script keyboard" Processing PDAM ballot results The WG agreed to the following: Recommendation 4: Progress on ISO/IEC 9995-9 amendment 1 ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 acknowledges the positive results of the PDAM1 ballot that came back approved unanimously without any comments requests in consequence that the JTC1/SC35 secretariat take appropriate measures to launch the DAM1 ballot as soon as possible after the Okayama meeting with an unmodified text. 8. Proposal for Amendment 2 of ISO/IEC 9995-7 (Symbols) [Karl Pentzlin] Discussion and planning PDAM The WG was concerned that there should not be any duplication of functions, and that some specific characters used on French language may be missing (thin non-breaking space, Em space). The WG agreed to the following: Recommendation 7: Postponing ISO/IEC 9995-7 amendment 2 ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 asks Mr. Karl Pentzlin to present his case in person about PDAM2 to 9995-7 at the next WG1 meeting, as text received was not considered mature enough by the experts in absence of discussion. This amendment is therefore put on hold until that discussion occurs. 9. Proposal for Amendment 1 of ISO/IEC 9995-10 (Symbols) [Karl Pentzlin] Discussion and planning PDAM The WG agreed to the following: Recommendation 8: Postponing ISO/IEC 9995-10 amendment 1 ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 asks Mr. Karl Pentzlin to present his case in person about PDAM1 to 9995-10 at the next WG1 meeting, as text received was not considered mature enough by the experts in absence of discussion. This amendment is therefore put on hold until that discussion occurs. It is felt that changing the meaning of a diacritic character may be confusing users. Recommendation 9: Tools for encoding ISO/IEC 9995-7 and ISO/IEC 9995-10 As a follow-up of resolutions 2010.47 and 2010.48, taking into account ISO/IEC SC2 refusal to encode some codedoints corresponding to extra symbols of ISO/IEC 9995, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 acknowledges the wish of Mr. Karl Pentzlin, the creator of the fonts made for the 9995-7 amendments 1 and 2 and for 9995-10, that these be freely available for use and that they be downloadable from the public ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 35 web site; kindly asks Mr. Karl Pentzlin to prepare a document showing correspondence of ISO/IEC 9995-7 and 9995-10 symbols with ISO/IEC 10646 characters and assigned PUA codepoints (PUA=Private Use Area), also showing glyphs used in the latter and symbols used in the former kindly asks ISO/CS to setup a publicly available download area for easy access to these resources if they do not exist as of now The intent is to have this information as public documents, and then to amend these standards to put information in normative annexes. 10. Any other business None were presented. 11. Future meetings: The next WG1 meeting is planned In conjunction with the forthcoming SC 35 meeting. 12. Establishment of resolutions Recommendations were agreed upon as shown above --------------AEBF70B27708C663E058946D--