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Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:36:14 +0000 (UTC) From: David Muxworthy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.7\)) Subject: Fwd: BOUNCE sc22wg5@open-std.org: Non-member submission from [Van Snyder ] Message-Id: <9446A857-4267-41C9-8C9C-CD009395037C@icloud.com> References: <20201022213516.6E247358ABA@www.open-std.org> To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 15:36:12 +0000 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.7) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312,18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-27_08:2020-10-26,2020-10-27 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=15 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=620 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2006250000 definitions=main-2010270097 Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk > =46rom owner-sc22wg5@www.open-std.org Thu Oct 22 23:35:16 2020 > Return-Path: > Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org > Received: from mail-pg1-f171.google.com (mail-pg1-f171.google.com = [209.85.215.171]) > (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) > (No client certificate requested) > by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E29E2358628 > for ; 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boundary=3D"=3D-gEm4FOosm1ann59uxqH= I" > User-Agent: Evolution 3.30.5-1.1=20 > MIME-Version: 1.0 >=20 >=20 > --=3D-gEm4FOosm1ann59uxqHI > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"UTF-8" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >=20 > I got this message from the Ada Rapporteur Group. It's a reasonable > view for any standard. >=20 > Van >=20 > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Bob Duff mentioned that he was against wasting a lot of time making > "cosmetic" changes to the RM, and for that reason voted against AI12- > 0399-1. I sympathize with this view, but on balance I think such > "cosmetic" changes are actually pretty important in the long run. >=20 > I believe there is an analogy with making changes to a house -- an > architect friend told me that when he designed an extension to a = house, > one of the goals was that when someone entered the house when it was > done, if they hadn't seen the house before, they couldn't tell what = was > the old part and what was the new part. >=20 > I feel the same general goal should apply to a good language update.=20= > If you haven't seen a prior version, then when you look at the > reference manual for the extended language, you shouldn't be able to > tell what are the old features and what are the new features. One > difference for Ada -- when we want to remove something, we actually > move it into Annex J (effectively the dusty old "attic" of the > language) rather than just putting it into a dumpster. >=20 > Perhaps more importantly, a new user of Ada need not be aware of what > parts of the language are brand new, and what parts have been there > since the beginning. If they have an historical bent, they could look > in Annex J, but as a new user they should probably completely ignore > it. >=20 > So I think the cosmetic changes ultimately simplify the process of > understanding the reference manual, by making it more consistent, with > the same idioms used in similar contexts. >=20 > Your mileage may of course vary... >=20 > -Tuck >=20 >=20 > --=3D-gEm4FOosm1ann59uxqHI > Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"utf-8" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > r;">
I got this message from the Ada Rapporteur Group. It's a = reasonabl=3D > e view for any = standard.

Van

<=3D > = div>=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D > = =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3= D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D > = =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3= D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D > =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D

Bob Duff mentioned that he = was against w=3D > asting a lot of time making "cosmetic" changes to the RM, and for that = reas=3D > on voted against AI12-0399-1. I sympathize with this view, but on = balance =3D > I think such "cosmetic" changes are actually pretty important in the = long r=3D > un.

I believe there is an analogy with making = chan=3D > ges to a house -- an architect friend told me that when he designed an = exte=3D > nsion to a house, one of the goals was that when someone entered the = house =3D > when it was done, if they hadn't seen the house before, they couldn't = tell =3D > what was the old part and what was the new = part.

I=3D > feel the same general goal should apply to a good language update. If = you=3D > haven't seen a prior version, then when you look at the reference = manual f=3D > or the extended language, you shouldn't be able to tell what are the = old fe=3D > atures and what are the new features. One difference for Ada -- when = we wa=3D > nt to remove something, we actually move it into Annex J (effectively = the d=3D > usty old "attic" of the language) rather than just putting it into a = dumpst=3D > er.

Perhaps more importantly, a new user of = Ada ne=3D > ed not be aware of what parts of the language are brand new, and what = parts=3D > have been there since the beginning. If they have an historical bent, = the=3D > y could look in Annex J, but as a new user they should probably = completely =3D > ignore it.

So I think the cosmetic changes = ultimat=3D > ely simplify the process of understanding the reference manual, by = making i=3D > t more consistent, with the same idioms used in similar = contexts.
>
Your mileage may of course = vary...

> -Tuck

>=20 > --=3D-gEm4FOosm1ann59uxqHI-- >=20