From owner-sc22wg5+sc22wg5-dom9=www.open-std.org@open-std.org Sat May 2 00:31:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sc22wg5-dom9 Delivered-To: sc22wg5-dom9@www.open-std.org Received: by www.open-std.org (Postfix, from userid 521) id 319C63587B3; Sat, 2 May 2020 00:31:03 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: sc22wg5@open-std.org Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by www.open-std.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B36356CD9 for ; Sat, 2 May 2020 00:31:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01FFF5C0486 for ; Fri, 1 May 2020 18:30:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap21 ([10.202.2.71]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 01 May 2020 18:30:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=certik.us; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm2; bh=RHxj+ RChH5WWJIdSSzCSQQJElS2tyZHCzE+mfVg8/p0=; b=Q0C5JjyIjAh9BVBEabXwd 8awJcd+UmVYXkiyUe1WKsXC65lCmSnjp732zG9J01ey06S72FvmVgjM7CehTVMxQ +OiDoMT6I5LUPJVToDTiub+RBYMal8RUgcsLo0s1BAr5m86bydd5xbmvMMuGMSue ehauf0+fBYSfGldiZIGMLfPpnwQr8e5X1rhfL6OlZCLYVvRBuwaLMP3IaCXRk76Z sLKKkDaQn7Tyst1FPymR+2Yo96RGVdb2Sb7aclTdZWZmnQ3yTGLAhU/vSWXQjHev taVgGfAIQTMtW9hB+021rWnakBSgqNq+dpP1V7Kh0El0bkqhM8zFXoWI2Q8pi21g g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=RHxj+RChH5WWJIdSSzCSQQJElS2tyZHCzE+mfVg8/ p0=; b=OHxEOa5SpdTLTjqPvt9b8i6hRad2C1w39tR8Q/9FVxX2fs/Ql2CwE+lD+ kP072PXYob6FnpAhS0JVqDShLR/0RC177jHW1kfZlG/gYkdei/QGrqwIgNqAT+mf JGeUU3TdgD53+cgc9ezQDi4qnEsaGw0Yy1aZwq+yQIC4NljX+5lax3JdRmouktem csx0i+mj8YK+FAxvsm6ccbN3oN5xcB8jno5A+lrIC2jasLs4evAlIyPs5qNolNjU 7ujR58Dl7cby5QYc4+xSSjkqPFvKs5Q0APmln9Dm/3GDCR8KKvotCG5/5GuPYIKa 3JlQukagWzcApnN/VbEu3nOnY8GhA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrieekgddtlecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqh ertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpefqnhgurhgvjhgpvegvrhhtvohkuceoohhnughrvghjsegt vghrthhikhdruhhsqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedufffhfffgffdvfedtgfehhfejge ehuedvkeellefffefhuefhiefhuddtiefgvdenucffohhmrghinhepjhefqdhfohhrthhr rghnrdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrh homhepohhnughrvghjsegtvghrthhikhdruhhs X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id A0511660081; Fri, 1 May 2020 18:30:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-dev0-351-g9981f4f-fmstable-20200421v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <75ce0867-a440-4911-96a6-7ef037f552ee@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20200428004737.19A4F9DB145@www.open-std.org> <20200428114456.5CCDA3568A1@www.open-std.org> <999548a1-9f82-418c-b8be-1fd87f94d3be@www.fastmail.com> <20200428172340.851A13568A1@www.open-std.org> <20200428195502.E072C3568BB@www.open-std.org> <5a392c04-ddab-46e6-8024-ae89b8658d29@www.fastmail.com> <20200428225409.F33B13587B3@www.open-std.org> <20200429083749.4E7369DB117@www.open-std.org> <20200429180015.B38E83568A1@www.open-std.org> <20200430235418.234049DB117@www.open-std.org> <20200501191044.E74C89DB116@www.open-std.org> Date: Fri, 01 May 2020 16:30:38 -0600 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_=C4=8Cert=C3=ADk?= To: "WG5 List" Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_[J3]_(SC22WG5.6208)_Re:__(SC22WG5.6204)_[EXTERNAL]_Re:_RE:?= =?UTF-8?Q?_[ukfortran]_October_meeting_visa_invitation_letter?= Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sc22wg5@open-std.org Precedence: bulk Hi Bill, I tried to keep my answer as short as possible: > > Bryce, thank you for this detailed explanation how C++ does it. That= 's precisely what I am trying to get the Fortran Committee to eventually= do also. But step by step in an evolutionary matter, so we first create= d the J3 GitHub repository, tried it for a few papers, it was a success,= then we'll try for more papers, until we get there. >=20 > And where is =E2=80=9Cthere=E2=80=9D? discussing and submitting all t= he papers on GitHub?=20 The goal (i.e. "there") that I am proposing: * Keep using https://j3-fortran.org/ as the primary (final) place to upl= oad each paper, we discuss, vote in person, the same as now. Committee m= embers who only have time to do that will only do that. They don't have = to work between meetings, they just have to show up at the J3 meeting (i= n Vegas). * Each paper is tracked at GitHub, from the initial idea to all the pape= rs the idea generates, and discussed with the wide Fortran community. T= he community collaborates on papers, that eventually get submitted to ht= tps://j3-fortran.org/. Committee members who have the time participate a= nd help track papers. Those who don't have time don't participate. * For those members that simply don't have the time to discuss ahead of = time at GitHub would simply show up at the J3 meeting in Vegas, as they = do now. The J3 / WG5 leadership would ensure that those members are welc= omed and encouraged to revisit any discussion that might have happened a= t GitHub before. Those members can still discuss (and shot down) papers = as they can now. Those members will not lose anything. * But all the people who cannot participate in Vegas will gain an (almos= t) equal place at the table. It's a win / win situation. If you are busy, you do not need to participate at GitHub. But you shoul= d still not be against people who have the time to participate there and= you should be encouraging them to participate.=20 The goal should be to include everyone who wants to help. Both people wh= o have busy day jobs as well as people who have more time. Remember that= there are a lot of people who want to help (and are already helping at = GitHub), but cannot come to a week long meeting (for financial or time r= easons). At the same time there are many experts at the Committee who ha= ve a very busy day job and don't have time to work between meetings. We = should include all. > > * we will have to build a community again there --- it was a *lot* o= f work that I and others had to put into the J3 GitHub site. Somebody wi= ll have to put in the same amount of work to make it a success. >=20 > No. You just put a message on the current GitHub saying that the=20 > project has moved, and click here to go there. Same community. No new= =20 > building. Just one click.=20 Unfortunately this move would almost for sure reduce our momentum. Some = people would move, but not all.=20 I expect to lose lots (but not all) of the smaller contributions from ne= w people that we currently have at GitHub. In the best case scenario we = can keep the momentum, but I doubt it. Our goal should be to keep our mo= mentum at maximum. Ondrej