Doc No: SC22/WG21/N1993 J16/06-0063 Date: 2006-04-18 Project: JTC1.22.32 Reply to: Robert Klarer IBM Canada, Ltd. firstname.lastname@example.org
Clamage called the meeting to order at 09:13(GMT+01:00) on Monday, April 3, 2006
Cord Wischöfer, speaking on behalf of DIN, welcomed everyone to Berlin, and described facilities for the meeting. SAP has sponsored daily lunches for the committee.
Clamage had the attendees introduce themselves.
Nelson reviewed membership rules. Nelson then circulated the attendance list and membership list. Clamage voting rules and reviewed procedures for the meeting.
Clamage presented the agenda (document J16/06-0011 = WG21/N1941):
Motion to approve the agenda:
Adamczyk reported that the CWG would continue to work through issues, and would discuss papers that had been forwarded to Core by EWG. Specific EWG papers to be addressed by Core included, among others, those proposing rvalue references, auto, and delegating constructors.
Maurer recommended that EWG proposals be submitted to a CWG member for first review before they are submitted to Core as a whole. Maurer himself offered to provide a first review of EWG proposals.
Hinnant reported that the LWG has 10 or 12 new papers to review. These papers mostly consist in proposals for changes or additions to either the C++ Standard Library, the TR1 libraries, or TR2. There are 15 LWG issues in Ready status, and these will be proposed for movement to DR status at this meeting.
Stroustrup described the EWG's activities for the coming week, and endorsed Maurer's suggestion (see above).
Stroustrup asked for a session in which LWG and EWG could meet to discuss an overall plan; the purpose of such a plan would be to coordinate the efforts of the two groups to avoid duplication of work, and to avoid mutual interference with respect to schedules and technical work.
Motion to approve the minutes (document J16/05-0175 = WG21/N1915) with the following amendment: change "Jack Reeves, Crystal Clear Software" to "Jeff Garland, Crystal Clear Software."
P. J. Plauger reports:
WG14 currently has three projects underway:
As well, P. J. Plauger notes that WG14 has cleared its DR backlog.
The current draft of the WP is J16/05-0165 = WG21/N1905. The editor's report corresponding to this draft is J16/05-0166 = WG21/N1906
Becker thanked Hinnant, Miller for their review of the draft.
Miller notes: after he reviewed the paper, it was noticed that one issue has an incorrect resolution; CWG issue 559 has been opened to handle this.
Motion to accept the working paper (J16/05-0165 = WG21/N1905 ):
We have three subgroups: Core, Library, and Evolution.
The committee broke into subgroups at 11:00 (GMT-05:00).
Adamczyk presented Core Working Group status and reviewed formal motions to be made Friday (for formal motions, see 9.1, below).
Stroustrup expressed concern that, during the next meeting or two, the number and scale of proposals submitted to CWG from EWG will increase significantly, and the CWG should consider new strategies for improving the rate at which it processes extension proposals. A discussion ensued about the level to which a proposal should be complete before the CWG will recommend it for adoption and inclusion in the Working Paper. There was also discussion about the potential use, in LWG, of language extensions that are currently being developed by EWG or CWG: would LWG members use language features that are not currently in the Working Paper?
Stroustrup stresed the need for feedback from LWG on the new language features, since that feedback will be very useful to EWG. This is an important reason for LWG to begin using the new language features early. "We need an iterative process, not a waterfall."
P. J. Plauger suggested that he would be happy to try new language features provided an implementation was available to him.
Crowl noted that most of the compiler implementors in this group do not have the authority to implement new language features because management determines how their time is used, and management won't approve new language features for implementation until they are in the standard.
Dawes suggested that LWG should prepare a list of those language features are of highest priority to the library.
Spicer and Sutter argued that the key to getting more work done is to work better between meetings.
Adamczyk asked whether any members of the group would object to a vote, during formal motions on Friday, on updated versions of J16/06-0030 = WG21/N1960 and J16/05-0154 = WG21/N1894 , provided the editorial issues in those papers were corrected in advance of the vote? No objection was raised.
Stroustrup asked whether the group would be willing to entertain a vote on J16/05-0155 = WG21/N1895 , provided it was corrected to address the known minor technical issue before voting on Friday (see results of straw poll below).
If wording for J16/05-0155 = WG21/N1895 delegating constructors was available at 9:00am Friday, and this revised paper was endorsed by members of CWG, would you be willing to vote on the revised proposal at 2:00pm?
Straw poll (this was a single straw poll to cover five uncontroversial motions):
1. Move all issues in Ready status in
J16/06-0005 = WG21/N1935
, excluding 488 and 530, to DR status and into the Working Draft. Issue numbers are 86, 420, 463, 464, 466, 479, 486, 492, 510, 513, 518, 519, and 525.
2. Move to request the project editor to replace the first sentence of 14.6p3 of document J16/05-0165 = WG21/N1905 with the following text:
When a qualified-id is intended to refer to a type that is not a member of the current instantiation (18.104.22.168) and its nested-name-specifier depends on a template-parameter (14.6.2), it shall be prefixed by the keyword
typename, forming a typename-specifier.
3. Adopt J16/05-0017=WG21/N1757 J16/05-0017 = WG21/N1757 , "Right Angle Brackets (Revision 2)."
4. Adopt a revised paper based on J16/06-0030 = WG21/N1960 , "extern template."
5. Adopt a revised paper based on J16/05-0154 = WG21/N1894 , "auto."
Hinnant presented Library Working Group status and reviewed formal motions to be made Friday (for formal motions, see 9.1, below).
The LWG had been processing TR issues, DRs, and reviewing LWG extensions (proposals to C++0x and TR2).
Hinnant reported that 24 issues were discussed, and 14 of those have been moved to Ready state. He then reviewed the following motions and asked, for each, whether any member anticipated voting no to any of them during the Friday session. No opposition to these motions was indicated.
1. Move Ready issues into C++0X Working Paper: 247, 294, 362, 369, 371, 376, 384, 475, 478, 495, 497, 505, 507, 508, 519
2. Adopt the proposed wording from J16/05-0082 = WG21/N1822 , on a max_digits10 member for std::numeric_limits, into the C++0X working draft.
3. Adopt the proposed text in minmax_proposal.html into the C++0X working draft.
4. Adopt the proposed text in manip_proposal.html into the C++0X working draft.
Hinnant then reviewed the following motion:
5. Adopt the proposed text from D1981 ("Uniform use of std::string Revision 1") into the C++0X working draft.
Brown asked whether this document number could be changed from a D number to an N number.
Nelson reported that he would object to a formal vote on a paper with a D number.
Hinnant responded by confirming that a paper with an N number would be prepared immediately after the end of the Thursday session. He then asked whether any member anticipated voting no to J16/06-0051= WG21/N1981 during the Friday session. No opposition was indicated.
6. Adopt the proposed text in J16/05-0173 = WG21/N1913 , "A proposal to improve const_iterator use (Revision 3)," into the C++0X working draft.
Again, Hinnant asked whether any member anticipated voting no to this motion. No opposition was indicated.
7. Adopt the first Library Technical Report into the C++0X working draft.
Sutter noted that the special math functions are among library components that are intended for inclusion by this motion. In Oxford, we agreed that there would be fair warning at such a time that special math was being proposed for inclusion in C++0x, so that time is now.
Ottosen asked what would happen should core features emerge that make TR1 libraries redundant?
Hinnant replied that the LWG has decided that, in such an event, the obsolete library will be removed from the Working Paper.
Nelson and Caves expressed a desire to vote on special math separately from the other TR1 components.
Dos Reis expressed a desire to vote on type_traits separately from the other TR1 components.
Straw poll on the adoption of TR1 type_traits into the C++0x working draft:
Straw poll on the adoption of TR1 special math functions into the C++0x working draft:
Straw poll on the adoption of the remainder of TR1 into the C++0x working draft:
8. Adopt the proposed text in J16/06-0045 = WG21/N1975 into the second Library Technical Report (TR2).
Once more, Hinnant asked whether any member anticipated voting no to this motion. No opposition was indicated.
9. Submit J16/06-0047 = WG21/N1977 to ISO for opening a new Technical Report concerning decimal types for C++.
Gibbons stated that he didn't see a significant need for decimal floating point arithmetic.
Evolution Working Group (EWG) will be making no formal motions Friday.
Stroustrup reported on EWG activities and progress, noting that the list of proposals that were discussed is on the Wiki.
See 10.1, below.
1) Move all issues in Ready status in J16/06-0005 = WG21/N1935 , excluding 488 and 530, to DR status and into the Working Draft. Issue numbers are 86, 420, 463, 464, 466, 479, 486, 492, 510, 513, 518, 519, and 525.
2) Move to request the project editor to replace the first sentence of 14.6p3 of document J16/05-0165=WG21/N1905 J16/05-0165 = WG21/N1905 with the following text:
When a qualified-id is intended to refer to a type that is not a member of the current instantiation (22.214.171.124) and its nested-name-specifier depends on a template-parameter (14.6.2), it shall be prefixed by the keyword typename, forming a typename-specifier.
3) Adopt J16/05-0017 = WG21/N1757 , "Right Angle Brackets (Revision 2)".
4) Adopt J16/06-0057 = WG21/N1987 , "Adding 'extern template' (version 2)". (On the Core Wiki as D1987.)
5) Adopt J16/06-0056 = WG21/N1986 , "Delegating Constructors (revision 3)". (In the Documents section of Wiki.)
6) Adopt J16/06-0054=WG21/N1984 J16/06-0054 = WG21/N1984 , "Deducing the type of variable from its initializer expression (revision 4)". (On the Core Wiki.)
The Danish delegation left the room at this time.
Hinnant reviewed a list of those proposals in EWG that LWG needs so that it can begin the work of translating the standard library in C++0x:
Kühl also noted the need for an implementation of auto.
1. Move Ready issues into C++0X Working Paper: 247, 294, 362, 369, 371, 376, 384, 475, 478, 495, 497, 505, 507, 508, 519.
Nelson requested that, in the future, papers that are the subject of a formal motion and are not yet in a mailing be placed on the "formal motions" page of the Wiki.
2. Adopt the paper J16/05-0082 = WG21/N1822 (on a max_digits10 member for std::numeric_limits) into the C++0X working draft.
3. Adopt the paper J16/06-0060 = WG21/N1990 ("Proposed Text for minmax") into the C++0X working draft.
4. Adopt the paper J16/06-0061 = WG21/N1991 ("Proposed Text for defaultfloat") into the C++0X working draft.
5. Adopt the paper J16/06-0051= WG21/N1981 ("Uniform use of std::string Revision 1") into the C++0X working draft.
6. Adopt the paper J16/05-0173 = WG21/N1913 ("A proposal to improve const_iterator use (Revision 3)") into the C++0X working draft.
7. Adopt the first ISO Technical Report on C++ Library Extensions, sections 2, 3, 5.1, 6, 7, 8, Appendix A into the C++OX working draft.
Vollmann asked whether the intention of the formal motion was to move the text of TR1 as amended by recent DRs?
Hinnant expressed the belief that the amendments should be applied separately.
P. J. Plauger proposed a friendly amendment to the formal motion to move the document as amended by the DRs into the C++0x working draft.
Meredith asked whether the motion should say that TR1 entities will be declared in the namespace std, rather than the namespace std::tr1?
Hinnant replied that issues such as these are the reason that section 1 is excluded from the formal motion.
Dawes proposed a friendly amendment to the formal motion to specify that the library entities will be "moved into namespace std."
8. Adopt the first ISO Technical Report on C++ Library Extensions, section 4 into the C++OX working draft.
Dawes proposed two friendly amendments to the formal motion:
9. Adopt the paper J16/06-0045 = WG21/N1975 ("Filesystem Library Proposal for TR2 (Revision 3)") into the second Library Technical Report (TR2).
10. Apply to ISO for registration of a Technical Report on decimal types for C++. J16/06-0047 = WG21/N1977 is the initial draft of the technical report.
Glassborow reported that the UK delegation has doubts about the value of decimal floating-point arithmetic
Dos Reis requested a brief review of the status of IEEE-754r.
Klarer responed by reporting that IEEE-754r has recently been meeting weekly to finish off the draft of their revised standard, and that it is very likely that the draft will go to ballot in the fall. Though details of the decimal arithmetic and encoding may change as IEEE-754r continue their work, the text of the C++ draft TR itself will not be affected by those changes.
Sutter asked all members in attendance whether, if there were to be an ad hoc meeting of people interested in concurrency and memory model issues, they would be interested in coming?
P. J. Plauger suggested to Sutter that he propose such a meeting in writing, giving at least two months notice, an agenda, and a list of alternate dates.
It was resolved that LWG members who are interested in this topic should subscribe to the -ewg reflector.
The next meeting will take place during the week of October 15-20, 2006, in Portland, OR. The meeting hosts are Intel and ANSI. OOPSLA is in Portland October 22-26, 2006
Nelson reviewed meeting facilities for the next meeting. The conference centre will be a free light rail trip from downtown Portland. The meeting will run all day Friday.
Nelson emphasized that conference centre area is secure, and a keycard is required for access. The conference centre is a part of the hotel. All meeting attendees must register either for the hotel or for access. This information is in the pre-meeting mailing.
Nelson reported the following mailing deadlines:
|post-meeting mailing||April 21 2006|
|midterm mailing||June 23 2006|
|pre-meeting mailing||September 8 2006|
Sutter reported that the Spring 2007 meeting is tentatively scheduled for Oxford. Financial sponsorship is being requested from among the committee's member organizations. BSI will organize this meeting.
Marcus asked whether this meeting be adjacent to an ACCU conference, and Sutter indicated that this is a possibility.
The Fall 2007 meeting will be located in Kona, HI. Plum reported that the tentative dates are:
These dates were determined with the assumption that the Ironman Triathlon will take place during the week beginning Sunday, Oct 14. It is possible, however, that Ironman will be moved to different week. If so, the WG14 meeting will take place from September 24th to 28th, or from October 15th to 19th (Yom Kippur is Saturday, September 22nd). OOPSLA 2007 will be held from September 21st to 25th.
Motion to adjourn
Meeting adjourned at 09:20(GMT+01:00)
|Adobe Systems||Mat Marcus||V||V||V||V||V|
|Apple Computer||Howard Hinnant||V||V||V||V||V|
|Bleading Edge Software||Jack Reeves||V||V||V||V||V|
|Borland International||Alisdair Meredith||V||V||V||V||V|
|Dawes||Beman G. Dawes||V||V||V||V||V|
|Dinkumware||P. J. Plauger||V||V||V||V||V|
|Edison Design Group||Steve Adamczyk||V||V||V||V||V|
|Edison Design Group||Daveed Vandevoorde||A||A||A||A|
|Edison Design Group||John H. Spicer||A||A||A||A||A|
|Edison Design Group||William M. Miller||A||A||A||A||A|
|Fermi Nat. Accelerator Lab||Walter Brown||V||V||V||V||V|
|Gimpel Software||James Widman||V||V||V||V||V|
|Indiana University||Doug Gregor||V||V||V||V|
|Mentor Graphics||Antonio Bigazzi||V||V||V||V||V|
|Plum Hall||Thomas Plum||V||V||V||V||V|
|Plum Hall||Francis W. Glassborow||A||A||A||A||A|
|Programming Research||Richard Corden||V||V||V||V||V|
|Red Hat||Jason Merrill||V||V||V||V||V|
|Red Hat||Benjamin Kosnik||A||A||A||A||A|
|Rogue Wave Software||Martin Sebor||V||V||V||V|
|Roundhouse Consulting||Pete Becker||A||A||A||A|
|Sun Microsystems||Lawrence Crowl||V||V||V||V||V|
|Sun Microsystems||Stephen D. Clamage||A||A||A||A||A|
|Texas A&M||Bjarne Stroustrup||A||A||A||A||A|
|Texas A&M||Jaakko Järvi||V||V||V||V||V|
|Zephyr Associates||Thomas Witt||V||V|
|BA Loerrach||Richard Kaiser||N||N|
|Integrable Solutions||Gabriel Dos Reis||N||N||N||N||N|
|IS Teledata||Jens Maurer||N||N||N||N||N|
|LM Ericsson Finland||Attila Fehér||N||N||N||N||N|
|Native Instruments||Olaf Krzikalla||N|
|Ramtex International||Thorsten Ottosen||N||N||N||N||N|
|Rice University||Jeremy Siek||N||N||N||N|
|University of Cambridge||N. M. Maclaren||N||N||N||N|
|The University of Seoul||Yong Woo Lee||N||N||N|
|Vollmann Engineering||Detlef Vollmann||N||N||N||N||N|