Document Number: WG14/N1004 NCITS/J11/03-001
Document Title: Oxford Meeting Minutes
Document Date: 08-April-2003
Monday March 31st
1. Opening activities
1.1 Opening Comments
FG: welcomed everybody and described the local arrangements.
1.2 Introduction of Participants/Roll Call
Derek Jones Knowledge Software UK
Walter Banks Byte Craft Limited Canada
Tom Kremer Cray, Inc USA
Chris Hills Hitex UK UK HOD
John Parks Intel USA
Raymond Mak IBM Canada HOD
Barry Hedquist Perennial, Inc USA
Fred Tydeman Tydeman Consulting USA
P. J. Plauger Dinkumware, Ltd USA
Tana L. Plauger Dinkumware, Ltd USA
John Hauser Self USA
Randy Meyers Silverhill Systems USA
Douglas Walls Sun Microsystems USA HOD
John Benito Self USA (Convener)
Willem Wakker ACE Consulting NL HOD
Randy Marques Atos Origin NL
Jan Kristoffersen Ramtex Engineering DK HOD
Nobu Mori SAP Germany HOD
Tom Plum Plum Hall USA
Francis Glassborrow Self UK
Rich Peterson HP USA
Herb Sutter Microsoft USA
Greg Colvin Oracle USA
Clive Feather Self USA
Martyn Lovell Microsoft USA
RM_C -> Raymond Mak
RM_U -> Randy Meyers
RM_N -> Randy Marques
1.3 Selection of Meeting Chair
JB to act as meeting chairman.
DJ to act as meeting secretary.
1.4 Procedures for this Meeting
As per normal.
1.5 Approval of Previous Minutes (WG14/N987)
ACTION: JB to revise minutes of previous meeting (correct typos) and
publish as N1003.
1.6 Review of Action Items and Resolutions
RM_U Lvalue of expression. OPEN
Revised words for DR266 OPEN
FG ??? CLOSED
LJ DR268 OPEN
RM_U DR267 OPEN
JB Email group for draft TR CLOSED
1.7 Approval of Agenda (WG14/N999)
Switched items 8/9 in the draft agenda.
1.8 Distribution of New Documents
No new documents.
1.9 Information on Next Meeting
TP: Next meeting to be held at Royal Kona Resort during Oct 21-24.
Hotel not providing meeting rates until the Monday evening.
ACTION: TP to send out Kona meeting information.
1.10 Identification of National Bodies
Countries represented: Netherlands, UK, Canada, US, Denmark, Germany
1.11 Identification of J11 voting members
12 voting J11 members out of 15 possible members.
2. TR Status Report (PDTR 18037.1, WG14/N996) (Benito, Wakker)
WW reported that a disposition of comments document had been sent out.
Aiming for document to be sent out for SC22 ballot after this meeting
and for ballot to be complete before that start of the next WG14 meeting.
SC22 has agreed that the final TR can be made publicly available via
3. Liaison Activities
3.1 J11 (Walls, Meyers)
RM_U: reappointed chair.
FT: appointed vice-chair.
3.2 WG14 (Benito)
JB: nothing to report.
3.3 J16/WG21 (Sutter)
TP: At least nine liaisons between WG14 and WG21 present at meeting.
Five year revision of C++ is underway.
ACTION: TP to forward N number of C++ Philosophy of revision document
to WG14 reflector.
A revised C++ Standard document, that includes the contents of the
TC, has been published as ISO/IEC 14882:2003. This is now the
3.4 WG15 (posix) (Simonsen)
No liaison report.
3.5 WG20 (I18N) (Simonsen)
WG20 have a new convener and the group had a meeting in Korea.
3.6 WG11 (Wakker)
Completed ballot on LIA part 3: complex arithmetic.
Revision of Language Independent Datatypes document slowly moving forward.
3.7 Other Liaison Activities
It was believed that an ISO workshop on Linux standardization (DJ
thought this might involve deciding which system files went in which
directories) would soon be taking place in the UK.
IEEE 754 continues to debate the status of signaling NANs.
4. Rationale Editors report (Benito)
JB: A new revision of the Rationale will soon be released.
5. Defect report status (Benito)
Discussed the possibility of issuing a TC containing replies to latest
DRs. This lead onto a discussion about whether work will start on
revising the current standard next year (five years after initial
publication) or it will be left to stand for a while longer.
No decisions made.
6. Optional Signaling NaN support (WG14/N1000)(Tydeman)
FT: Presented N1000 to the committee. The committee agreed to this
document replacing the signaling NaN document currently linked to
from the WG14 web site.
7. Additional Character Data Types in the Programming Language C (WG14/N998) (Mori)
NM: Presented N998 to the committee.
After some discussion it was agreed that a new header, uchar.h,
contain the macro, type, and function definitions.
It was agreed that the functionality described in N998 was of
practical benefit to developers and that a TR should be published.
ACTION: NM to edit N998 into a form suitable for submission as a TR.
ACTION: JB, TP, RM_U, BP, WW to review the document produced by NM.
ACTION: JB to forward the reviewed document to SC22 for registration
as a TR and concurrent ballot.
9. New defects (WG14/N995, WG14/N1002) (Benito, Walls)
DW presented N995. The committee agreed on it being submitted as a DR
ACTION: RM_U to write the response to DR 284.
The committee agreed that the question raised in N1002 be submitted
as a DR (DR 285).
FT described a number of cases where wording associated with floating
point requirements might need clarification. The committee
discussed whether any of these cases should be submitted as DR's.
ACTION: FT create wording for a DR (number 286 assigned) dealing with
correct rounding mode issues in annex F.
ACTION: FT create wording for a DR (number 287 assigned) dealing with
one or more 'typo's in G.5.1p8.
ACTION: FT create wording for a DR (number to be assigned) containing
floating-point related typos.
DONE (merged into 'typo' DR being produced by JB).
Broke up into two groups. One group discussed open DR's and the
other discussed the Embedded TR.
Tuesday April 1st
8. Interpretation of the Sequence Point Specification. (WG14/N1001) (Mak)
RM_C presented N1001. There was extensive discussion (summarized
by one person as "we have said all this before").
ACTION: CF, RM_C, RM_U, RP to form a subgroup to discuss sequence point
issues and report back before the end of the meeting.
DJ reported back to the full committee the extensive, mostly inconclusive,
discussion on DR 219 that had occurred in the Defect Report breakout
10. Proposal for TR on C Library Security (WG14/N997) (Sutter, Lovell)
ML presented N997. There was discussion about whether the
functionality described should be formally included, in some fashion,
in standard C.
ACTION: ML to post a request for feedback on the contents
of the paper to the WG14 reflector.
11. Break out into groups
ACTION. RM_U to write a paper discussing the issues raised during the
discussion of DR 219.
DR 230. Change status from Open to Review.
DR 251. Change status from Open to Review.
DR 260. Lots of discussion with no consensus being reached. The case
of pointer usage in segmented architectures was suggested as an
additional motivating example.
ACTION. RM_U, JB to find/create document discussing DR 260.
DR 266. Discussion with no consensus. To discuss later.
DR 261. Clive had potential sticking points and will converse with
DR 267. Change status from Review to Closed.
DR 268. Agreed to accept wording, with revisions between [[ ]]
below, from N985 and change status from Open to Review.
"- The subsequent effect of a jump statement [[inside the loop]] or of
reaching the end of the loop body shall be the same as if the jump
[[into the loop]] had not happened and ..."
DR 272. CF, RP to discuss revised wording and report back before the
end of the meeting.
DR 274. Accept wording from N985 and change status from Open to Review.
DR 280. Delete the Proposed Committee Response. Add the sentence
"See footnote 267." between the first and second sentences of bullet
point 3 of the Suggested Committee Response and make it the Proposed
Committee Response. Change status from Review to Closed.
Embedded TR discussion
TO BE ADDED by Embedded subgroup Chair???
Wednesday April 2nd
11d. Continued break out
ACTION: TP to summarize issues associated with DR 236 and provide
draft wording for committee response.
DR 281. Change status from Review to Closed.
DR 282. Change status from Review to Closed.
ACTION: RM_U to produce wording for DR 284.
DR 285. Existing proposed response in N1002 accepted. Change status
from Open to Review.
11f. Continue break out
ACTION: RM_C to create sequence point document and send to review
committee in time to comment for submission to the next WG14 meeting.
ACTION: CF, FT, RM_U, TK to review sequence point paper prior to
next WG14 meeting.
ACTION: FT to create a 'flags and sequence points' document for
submission as a DR.
ACTION: JB to create 'variable' -> 'object' typo document for
submission as a DR.
ACTION: CF to draft words describing the four uses of the term
constant to be considered in the response to DR 261.
DONE merged in here or a separate document? I don't have them.
ACTION: RP to draft revised wording for response to DR 272 in time
for the full committee tomorrow.
DONE merged in here or a separate document? I don't have them.
More discussion of DR 236.
Thursday April 3rd
WW reported deliberations of Embedded TR group to the full committee.
Getting a document published promptly was considered to be very
important. Unable to reach consensus on annex D, so it was dropped.
Various small updates were made to the document.
ACTION: WW to send document to Embedded subgroup and interested
parties on April 14 for a one week review period.
ACTION: JB will forward, on April 21, reviewed Embedded document to
SC22 for PDTR ballot.
NM described some issues relating to the additional character types
TR proposal (emails SC22WG14.9748 & SC22WG14.9750).
15. Defect report review
Presentation of deliberations of Defect subgroup to full committee.
DR 266. More discussion. Agreed to leave open for now.
DR 236. TP presented his thoughts on the direction of a discussion
document. The committee were not able to reach consensus.
DR 272. TP presented wording which was accepted.
DR 282. The wording of the Proposed Technical Corrigenda was changed
to (with the status remaining Review):
"In most situations the flexible array member is ignored. In
particular, the size of the structure is as if the flexible array
member was omitted (and may contain additional padding at the start
to ensure the flexible array member is correctly aligned). However...
... except that it may have more trailing padding than this omission
Wording changes were also needed for the examples.
ACTION: CF to provide modified wording for examples involving
flexible array members.
TP presented the DR 236 discussion that had occurred during a lunch
time break out group meeting.
14. Separate WG14 administration and J11/U.S. TAG meetings
Agenda for the J11/U.S. TAG Meeting
1. Security TR
J11 recommends the U.S. participate and offer to provide a project
editor for a work item to produce a TR for C standard library Security
based on WG14/N997. Tom/Fred
There were no WG14 administration issues that needed to be considered.
16.1 Future Meetings
16.1.1 Future Meeting Schedule
2004 Mar 29-Apr 2 in Sydney Australia. Hosted by Whitesmiths/Standards Australia
2004 Oct Redmond, WA USA. Hosted by Microsoft/ANSI
2005 No official host
2005 Sep/Oct hosted by Canadian National Body
16.1.2 Future Agenda Items
16.1.3 Future Mailings
Post Oxford meeting mailing items to be with JB by May 2.
Pre Kona mailing items to be with JB by Sep 22.
16.2.1 Review of Decisions Reached
Sending Embedded TR out for PDTR ballot.
Sending Additional Character Set TR out for registration and
16.2.2 Formal Vote on Resolutions
16.2.3 Review of Action Items
ACTION items were reviewed
16.2.4 Thanks to Host
Thanks to Francis for all the work he put into hosting the meeting.
16.3 Other Business